On Reader Mail, A Hidden Thief

05.00 Unknown 0 Comments

Ryan Latta writes in and says:

"I have a hard time imagining certain circumstances in a game where skills like Perception are [not used]."

He then asks some more specific questions, one of which we will be looking at today.

"1) A thief hides (With a successful secret roll). How can he be discovered? "

Anyone can hide.

Seriously. Anywhere.

"I hide in the barrel." or "I hide in the closet." or "I hide underneath the bed." There isn't a roll involved in these circumstances. Characters are just hidden.

Mechanically, two things are of note:

1. The older editions of the game gave the ability of the thief to hide in shadows, effectively being able to hide in a darkened area where there was no place to hide.
2. In the modern game hiding has more to do with the style of play and the assumptions of imminent combat. The contested hide roll is more about a mechanic for surprise rather than hiding. This is handled in older games with the strangely named "surprise roll".

"I look in the room."
"You just see the bed and the dresser."
"I search the room starting over by the bed."
"You feel a stabbing pain, in your back, where the hidden thief put the knife."

versus

"I look in the room, shining my lantern around in all the corners"
"As you do, there in the corner, you see a cowled form, cowering in the darkness."

Why is this not pixel bitching? Because it sounds like pixel bitching.

It is because the game mechanics give a certain class a specific semi-supernatural ability to remain unseen. I am assuming that the players are doing due diligence when they enter a room, but unless they take specific action to counter a known special ability, then by virtue of having that special ability the creature overcomes that specific normal level of safe exploration.

Let's look at the same example using the normal and standard output of your traditional mill; a goblin. Once with him hiding under the bed, once with him hiding 'in the shadows'

Goblin hiding in the shadows

"I look in the room."
"You just see the bed and the dresser, and a short goblin pressing against the wall, hoping to remain unseen."

Goblin hiding under the bed

"I look in the room."
"You just see the bed and the dresser."
"I search the room starting over by the bed."
"Roll a d6" {calling for a standard surprise roll}

 If a PC thief is hiding from an NPC: The NPC should not discover the player, unless there are
exceptional circumstances.

• If the NPC is not searching for the player, and the player hides in a specific place, then unless the NPC is there to go into that specific place then they will not be discovered. i.e. if a player hides in the closet, then unless the NPC is there to go into the closet, then the player will not be discovered. Any player. No chance.
• If the NPC is not searching for the player, and the player is a thief who makes a successful hide in shadows roll, then unless the NPC is there to make the room as bright as the day, then the thief will not be discovered.
• If the NPC is searching for the player, and they are not brain damaged, then they will check all obvious places (closets, beds, and the like). People of above-average intelligence will check non-obvious places, (dusting for invisibility, checking for reduced or duo-dimensional casters, eliminating all shadows). I would suggest restricting above-average to things like officers, vampires, mages, and the like, not simple guard captains. If they check somewhere the players are hiding, then the players will be discovered.
• If the NPC is searching for the player, and the player is a thief who makes a successful hide in shadows roll, then unless the NPC is brilliant or tasked with the specific purpose of making the room as bright as the day, then the thief will not be discovered.

A good metric to use to is to ask the player if he agrees that the NPC searching that location is reasonable.

There are several mechanical concerns that make it fairly obvious that this should be the way things are handled.

First: It is difficult enough to make the roll in the first place. Why would you be looking for ways to negate a rarely used ability that is fun for the players to use?

Second: It creates one of two situations. Either they are successful at hiding and feel empowered and enjoy making the decision on when to get the drop on nearby opponents, or they will realize that they are going to be discovered and have to make a choice about what to do before they are discovered. It is extra fun for the players because they don't know which result they achieved.

I hope the discussion has been of some use, and let's look forward to answering more of Ryan's questions next week.

As always, feel free to submit questions to reader mail at "campbellNOSPAM AT oook DOTGOESHERE cz"